# Upgraded Z-Axis Design **URL:** \ **Category:** Upgrades\ **Created:** [April 5, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179 "2017-04-05T16:54:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TonyNo](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/tonyno/32/3291_2.png) [@TonyNo](https://community.inventables.com/u/TonyNo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/29 "2017-04-06T01:32:42Z")
Not sure about Delrin for this. ---
**Author:** ![X-CNC](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/x-cnc/32/50146_2.png) [@X-CNC](https://community.inventables.com/u/X-CNC)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/30 "2017-04-06T02:35:32Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > a lot of people also prefer direct drive instead of belt. one less place to introduce backlash and one less point of failure. +1 👍 IMO direct drive is the only way to go when there’s an investment like this. ---
**Author:** ![TonyNo](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/tonyno/32/3291_2.png) [@TonyNo](https://community.inventables.com/u/TonyNo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/31 "2017-04-06T11:49:49Z")
Can the rail plate be \>1/4"? That seems to be a weak point with others. ---
**Author:** ![Deepnoizer](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/deepnoizer/32/44439_2.png) [@Deepnoizer](https://community.inventables.com/u/Deepnoizer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/32 "2017-04-06T12:38:50Z")
I agree that direct drive is a better choice even at the cost of having to move center weight towards the router a bit. On top of that I don’t believe flexible coupling belongs on CNC and rigid type should be used. And I also believe people should be cautious with the travel distance they wish for, half of the reasons mentioned here call for raising entire X axis or even Y plates like many have done to gain clearance. You have to remember reach is also limited by size of spindle and necessity to grip to X gantry and Inventables while nice and solid takes lot of space on the spindle/router. ---
**Author:** ![JohnKendra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aca169/32.png) [@JohnKendra](https://community.inventables.com/u/JohnKendra)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 1:58pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/34 "2017-04-06T13:58:39Z")
Hi, I’m new here, I will buy a used X-Carve from a buddy but it need a more rigid z axis. I can be interested if you can use linear bearings like this one: [http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-AXIS-5-034-travel-ANTI-WEAR-NUT-slider-linear-actuator-X-CARVE-CNC-router-plasma-/152497735200](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-AXIS-5-034-travel-ANTI-WEAR-NUT-slider-linear-actuator-X-CARVE-CNC-router-plasma-/152497735200)? Hope you can ship to Canada because the one in link can’t:( ---
**Author:** ![RobertBeattie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a587f6/32.png) [@RobertBeattie](https://community.inventables.com/u/RobertBeattie)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/35 "2017-04-06T14:45:56Z")
On the friction/wear element, Delrin is regularly used as the material for the blow-back bolts in paintball markers. ---
**Author:** ![JeffRowe](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/jeffrowe/32/59424_2.png) [@JeffRowe](https://community.inventables.com/u/JeffRowe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/36 "2017-04-07T18:05:37Z")
You have mentioned a longer Z Axis in other threads, like 5.11" or 5.45" with your gantry lift plates in place… where did you get this Zaxis? or did you make it? ---
**Author:** ![KyleKronyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e57/32.png) [@KyleKronyak](https://community.inventables.com/u/KyleKronyak)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/38 "2017-04-07T19:24:25Z")
I just did some testing with more aggressive aluminum cuts. Previously with the wheeled z-axis I found that the sweet spot was about 1 square mm (1mm depth x 1mm width of cut) before the machine would start to chatter. I use Fusion 360 for CAD / CAM so I would typically avoid slotting and plunging by using adaptive clearing and pre-drilling for bored holes. I just cut an aluminum part manually and was able to do 6.35mm deep (full thickness of the stock) by 2mm width of cut. This was with a fairly beat up HSS end mill. I did tried to do some very aggressive slotting tests (8mm deep by 4mm wide) but the spindle overcame the torque of the X-axis stepper and pulled it aside. I am running a 269 oz. in. NEMA 23 stepper on my X, and using a TB5650 driver board with linuxCNC for reference. I think based on these results the 1/2" rods should be fine for stiffness, as well as the 1/4" thick backing plates for the brackets. I will design the “extended version” around probably 5/16 or 3/8 plate for a little more stiffness. ---
**Author:** ![ThomasBelanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@ThomasBelanger](https://community.inventables.com/u/ThomasBelanger)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/40 "2017-04-09T14:20:13Z")
I want this so bad! haha ---
**Author:** ![MikeMarek](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/mikemarek/32/87483_2.png) [@MikeMarek](https://community.inventables.com/u/MikeMarek)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/41 "2017-04-10T16:28:23Z")
I would be interested in a 7" version ---
**Author:** ![KyleKronyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e57/32.png) [@KyleKronyak](https://community.inventables.com/u/KyleKronyak)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/42 "2017-04-10T17:38:14Z")
I am planning to make an extended version. It will take more testing on my part since I will have to make a custom acme screw for it, so it will probably come a little after the base version and/or have a slightly longer lead time to produce. For those who want a longer version, I am curious if 6.6" (12" rod length) would suffice? The linear rods are available in increments of 2" so the next step up would be 8.6" (14" rod length) or custom cutting the rod though I am not too keen on the latter since they are hardened steel. The standard version (10" rod length) will have a little over 4.6" of travel. ---
**Author:** ![X-CNC](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/x-cnc/32/50146_2.png) [@X-CNC](https://community.inventables.com/u/X-CNC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/45 "2017-04-13T00:51:20Z")
> [@KyleKronyak](#): > > For those who want a longer version, I am curious if 6.6" (12" rod length) would suffice? I would be happy with that. Actually… I would be _very_ happy with that if the price were right. > [@TonyNo](#): > > Not sure about Delrin for this. It’s not really a matter of whether Delrin has high wear resistance _(it does_) it’s more a matter of which _grade_ of Delrin is used. They make gears out of Delrin, and use it on conveyor belts. One reason it lasts longer is because of its high heat resistance. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/dp7bOiwrWZc/maxresdefault.jpg "DuPont™ Delrin® Outlasts Acetal Copolymers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dp7bOiwrWZc) ---
**Author:** ![GaryDeaver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@GaryDeaver](https://community.inventables.com/u/GaryDeaver)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/47 "2017-04-13T11:39:28Z")
I like IGUS stuff and have used it in robotics applications. Great for harsh dirty abusive applications. Cheap over seas linear ball bearing do not last in 3d printers. The stresses in routers are higher. Pay now or replace many times latter. Good bearing are expensive. Good rods are expensive. That said there are some high quality Chinese stuff. It’s just that you never know what your getting. ---
**Author:** ![X-CNC](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/x-cnc/32/50146_2.png) [@X-CNC](https://community.inventables.com/u/X-CNC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/49 "2017-04-13T12:02:52Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > That slap test didn’t really equate to glide use in a linear rail setup Their full technical library can be found here; [http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-resins/thermoplastics/resins-technical-library.html#taxonomyTags=dpp\_resins\_vechnical\_library\_us\_brand\_delrin!~null~!&contentTypeTags=](http://www.dupont.com/products-and-services/plastics-polymers-resins/thermoplastics/resins-technical-library.html#taxonomyTags=dpp_resins_vechnical_library_us_brand_delrin!~null~!&contentTypeTags=) ---
**Author:** ![KyleKronyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e57/32.png) [@KyleKronyak](https://community.inventables.com/u/KyleKronyak)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/50 "2017-04-13T15:53:43Z")
Right now the approach I am taking is to make my own bearings on a lathe from Delrin stock. I got some Igus-style bearings (not sure if it was Igus but it had the same color) from McMaster and the ID was oversized far too much (0.3 mm). I may try ordering from an alternate source in case it wasn’t actually Igus and/or they sent me 13mm instead of 1/2". Making them myself should be fairly quick and cheap though. I am testing with DuPont Delrin (homopolymer) brand stock – I may try the Teflon-embedded stuff but it’s a lot more expensive. I think since we aren’t using this for a high-speed application (\< 50mm/s on the Z axis typically?) wear resistance is probably the critical factor. I did try Teflon (PTFE) but I think it’s too soft. Oilite bronze is another option but I’m not sure if there’s a compelling reason to use it instead of Delrin. Keep in mind these are simple sleeve bearings – proper linear bearings would be ideal but they come at a cost. It’s the same reason X-Carve isn’t built with ballscrews and linear slide assemblies from the factory. A set of “good” linear bearings could easily exceed $100. ---
**Author:** ![ScottK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/db5fbb/32.png) [@ScottK](https://community.inventables.com/u/ScottK)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/51 "2017-04-13T17:05:41Z")
Sorry to jump off topic slightly, but what spindle and mount are you using here? Do I see a spacer on the spindle as well? I am totally for this z-axis upgrade as well… The 611 will be short lived. ---
**Author:** ![KyleKronyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e57/32.png) [@KyleKronyak](https://community.inventables.com/u/KyleKronyak)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/52 "2017-04-14T04:12:46Z")
It is an 800w water cooled spindle, came as a kit along with a 1.5kw 220v VFD. [http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-BEARING-0-8KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ER11-AND-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD-CNC-/252004422557?hash=item3aaca2539d:g:YeAAAOSwm8VUtiVW](http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-BEARING-0-8KW-WATER-COOLED-SPINDLE-MOTOR-ER11-AND-INVERTER-DRIVE-VFD-CNC-/252004422557?hash=item3aaca2539d:g:YeAAAOSwm8VUtiVW) ---
**Author:** ![X-CNC](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/x-cnc/32/50146_2.png) [@X-CNC](https://community.inventables.com/u/X-CNC)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/53 "2017-04-14T16:07:36Z")
> [@KyleKronyak](#): > > I did try Teflon (PTFE) but I think it’s too soft. Yes, Teflon is softer than Delrin. Making them yourself should save you money 👍 > [@KyleKronyak](#): > > It is an 800w water cooled spindle, came as a kit along with a 1.5kw 220v VFD. I was also thinking about picking one of these up. How long have you had yours? Do you recommend it? ---
**Author:** ![KyleKronyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e57/32.png) [@KyleKronyak](https://community.inventables.com/u/KyleKronyak)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/54 "2017-04-17T18:23:09Z")
I got the spindle kit about a little over a year ago. I’ve been very satisfied with the spindle and VFD. I am running my machine on a LinuxCNC box and I have it set up with RS245 control of the VFD so it automatically changes speed to match the G code. It is a water cooled unit and for cooling I am using a PC 120mm radiator / fan. Even a quiet low-speed fan is adequate to keep it cool, no need for big noisy fans or double / triple wide radiators. It’s a lot quieter than the DeWalt router and has a much wider range of speeds (down to just a few hundred RPM while still getting enough torque to cut softer materials) Another big advantage is that it uses standard ER11 collets and collet nuts which are cheap and easy to find (Amazon etc.) I find myself using a lot of 6mm shank HSS bits as well as 4mm carbide and various black oxide stub-length twist drills for doing work on aluminum. ---
**Author:** ![KyleKronyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a88e57/32.png) [@KyleKronyak](https://community.inventables.com/u/KyleKronyak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179/55 "2017-05-02T03:58:12Z")
I wanted to provide an update since I haven’t posted news on this project in a while. I am getting very close to the point where I will be able to start producing and selling these – hopefully within the next 2 weeks or so 🙂 A few key points: - Main item will be the “standard” kit with 4.6" of travel. This will utilize the acme screw, nut, and Z motor mount / drive components from the base X-Carve machine - “Extended” kit with same features except 2" longer travel will be offered on a limited basis. This will include a new custom-made acme screw to accommodate the extended travel distance. Two additional developments: - Anti-backlash delrin acme nut. Can be used with standard v-wheel axis or slide axis. I have designed this but I need to make and test some units. - Direct-drive motor mount. Will utilize thrust and radial bearings to unload stress from the motor’s shaft and bearings. I need to work on this – I don’t have the bearings yet As far as selling etc. goes my plan is to use Fulfillment by Amazon which will allow for Amazon Prime fast shipping etc. The feedback I’d be interested in: Any thoughts on using Amazon? Other sales channels? Would the users who wanted the “extended” version mind using the belt drive until I am able to finish developing the direct-drive assembly? Like most of the parts I’m developing, the direct drive would be a drop-in replacement and could even be used with the v-wheel axis. Any feedback is appreciated! [Previous page](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgraded-z-axis-design/36179.md?page=3)