# Upgrade Guidance **URL:** \ **Category:** Upgrades\ **Created:** [August 11, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675 "2017-08-11T12:24:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/1 "2017-08-11T12:24:10Z")
Hello everyone, I am in most interested in cutting aluminum at the moment but am also trying to get into some acrylic sign making. I am aware of the various upgrades that people recommend for milling aluminum, my question is more on guidance of what upgrade is my money better spent on at this time. Machine info: Shapeoko 2 ugraded to Xcarve(no x-controller, no single piece x-axis) arduino uno controller nema 17 motors(54 oz-in I think) 60 min x-axis stiffening mod about to have aluminum T-track bed Dewalt 611 My thoughts so far: Motors: I think that the motors are probably one of the weakest areas of my machine currently. I cut 3/4" aluminum and all is smooth until I get deeper into the material, then I start to see a lot of shaking of the whole unit and can hear the increased stress. I know I need to look into better methods of cutting instead of just cutting a trench around the profile of my parts, but I am figuring that out in fusion currently. Upgrade options: 179 oz-in nema 23’s(would this require new 9mm belts?) Linear Rail Z-axis Ball screws for axis instead of belts X-controller(I don’t know of any real benefit of this over the arduino other than a cleaner setup) Any thoughts on which upgrade my money should go to first is appreciated. I think I am leaning towards the motors currently. Thank you, Cory ---
**Author:** ![HaldorLonningdal](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/haldorlonningdal/32/72377_2.png) [@HaldorLonningdal](https://community.inventables.com/u/HaldorLonningdal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:34pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/2 "2017-08-11T12:34:44Z")
FWIW - this is my experience from a diy CNC based on supported rails/screw drive. Some info about it here: [My DIY-carve](https://community.inventables.com/t/my-diy-carve/37586) 1 - Get Nema23’s in the 269oz range for all axis where the motor case will fit. Machine some Nema17-23 adapters if required. 2 - Get new drivers so you can take the motors to their optimal current limit (or get an Xcontroller) These two mods are the two most signifigant changes to my diy CNC. (Started with Nema17’s and A4988/DRV8825 drivers) Stronger belts are preferred as the increased motor torque may make the belts your next weak link. Screw drive will also be a big factor. Video of mine in action (diy): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/KwfLc3nLn60/maxresdefault.jpg "2D Adaptive Clearing") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwfLc3nLn60) Fusion360 is very powerful once you get your head around it, it did take me a little while… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/4 "2017-08-11T13:35:52Z")
Thanks for the reply. There is a lot of good info in the link you posted. I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/5 "2017-08-11T13:42:54Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > 4x 269oz stepper motors are about $80 > > Linear rail Z (required direct drive to fit 269oz stepper) > > TB6600 controller that can supply full power is about $100 if you have a power supply and an Arduino already. > > Definitely the single piece X axis (nevermind, you have at least a stiffening mod) > > 9mm wide belts and pulleys = $75 around > > It really comes down to budget. I certainly can’t pull the trigger on all of these upgrades at once. But it looks like the consensus so far is that the motors would be the first place to put money into, which is what I was thinking anyways. I wasn’t thinking that I would need a new controller for the motors though. looking for the TB6600 on amazon results in items that are much less than $100. I must not be seeing the right thing. or do I also need 4 drivers to go with the controller? I have a 24v 500 watt psu([https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IU8QBCO/ref=oh\_aui\_detailpage\_o02\_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IU8QBCO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)) I think that this is adequate for the stronger steppers. is this accurate? Thanks for the input. I am not looking to be able to mill aluminum in a matter of minutes. I am more concerned with being able to start it and have enough confidence in the machine to walk away and come back later to a successful cut and not have to worry and babysit it for an hour. ---
**Author:** ![HaldorLonningdal](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/haldorlonningdal/32/72377_2.png) [@HaldorLonningdal](https://community.inventables.com/u/HaldorLonningdal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/8 "2017-08-11T14:34:28Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > the Gshield cannot supply full amperage to the nema 23’s. My experience was around 1.5 amps or I go into thermal overload on long runs and loose steps. This - you have the Arduino and PSU so all you need is 4 new drivers as Phil suggest, without the added power the Nema23´s won’t be reaching their potensial. I went same way as Phil did, just slightly different drivers, and the difference was night and day. No understatement… 🙂 4x TB6600 required ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/9 "2017-08-11T15:07:30Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > 4x 269oz stepper motors are about $80 where can I get 4 of these motors for $80? on amazon, they are ~$140 for 4 of them. on [stepperonline.com](http://stepperonline.com) they are $70 +$55 shipping. ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/11 "2017-08-11T15:14:28Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > Are you in the USA? Yessir ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/13 "2017-08-11T15:28:45Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > Make sure that you use the US version of the steppers online otherwise shipping is astronomical that was the problem, I didn’t notice the country option. of course, they have no stock for the US. ---
**Author:** ![HaldorLonningdal](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/haldorlonningdal/32/72377_2.png) [@HaldorLonningdal](https://community.inventables.com/u/HaldorLonningdal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/15 "2017-08-11T15:39:06Z")
Also check the shaft diameter of the Nema 23 you choose, Nema17´s are usually less. With 4 new motors and 4 new drivers, you have about $200 invested which will be a massive upgrade, power wise. ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/17 "2017-08-11T15:48:55Z")
> [@HaldorLonningdal](#): > > Also check the shaft diameter of the Nema 23 you choose, Nema17´s are usually less. > [@PhilJohnson](#): > > The link above is to the correct .25" diameter shaft (6.35mm) looking at the print of the nema 17 on inventables site, it looks like it does have a smaller shaft, therefore I will need new pulleys as well. ---
**Author:** ![AlanWalls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5daacb/32.png) [@AlanWalls](https://community.inventables.com/u/AlanWalls)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/19 "2017-08-11T17:38:55Z")
If your goal is cut quality improvement instead of cut speed improvement does that chance the answer? ---
**Author:** ![HaldorLonningdal](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/haldorlonningdal/32/72377_2.png) [@HaldorLonningdal](https://community.inventables.com/u/HaldorLonningdal)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/21 "2017-08-11T19:26:36Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > To move fast in harder material, you need to have the power to do it and not loose steps. The load is higher so a stronger system is less prone to loose steps. However, to successfully carve metals another major factor is rigidity. The more rigid the structure is the better. Another factor at play is how you carve. Easel is lacking in that regard as more powerful CAM-suites can generate specific kinds of tool paths, well adapted to the task at hand. With Easel I can’t efficiently move aluminium, so I need to make it spend its time, fast and shallow. With Fusion360 (or similar CAM´s) I can make different strategies better suited. I have done 9mm depth of cut with a 3mm bit (1/8"-ish) at 750mm/min (30ipm). The cut strategy limited the step over to a certain extent in order to not overload my system. Here is an image of a stress test I performed a while back, 8 test pockets with 1mm increment depths running full depth at 600mm/min and 0.8mm step over. Carve finished in 12min with Fusion360, CAM 2D Adaptive clearing: ![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/uploads/inventables/original/3X/8/5/85a3f4755ec31149215f592664332b564ce5da81.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/22 "2017-08-11T20:01:41Z")
> [@PhilJohnson](#): > > Good time to upgrade to 9mm 3GT2 or 3 belting and pulleys. What length is that belt in the link you provided? I cant tell on the page unless im just blind. is it by the foot? ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/24 "2017-08-12T16:44:06Z")
Ok so I have decided on doing the motor upgrade with the new drivers, pulleys and 9mm belts while I’m at it. The more I use my machine and the motors miss steps the more irritated I get with it. I just need the steppers to be in stock for USA shipment. Is there a bigger belt for the z-axis? I haven’t seen a 9mm closed belt yet. ---
**Author:** ![JeremyHanks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@JeremyHanks](https://community.inventables.com/u/JeremyHanks)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/25 "2017-08-12T18:43:43Z")
I had nema 17s on my machine at first and jumped to 180 ish in/oz motors on my arduino and gshield. I do plan to build a new controller at some point but the new motors were a dramatic improvement even with the reduced amperage available with the gshield. When I go new controller it should be even better. ---
**Author:** ![HaldorLonningdal](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/haldorlonningdal/32/72377_2.png) [@HaldorLonningdal](https://community.inventables.com/u/HaldorLonningdal)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/26 "2017-08-12T19:00:02Z")
> [@JeremyHanks](#): > > I do plan to build a new controller at some point but the new motors were a dramatic improvement even with the reduced amperage available with the gshield. When I go new controller it should be even better. It will, my experience is that the new drivers (for me) was by far he largest increase in performance/resistance to loosing steps. I dont think I have lost a single step since that upgrade, knock on wood! Larger motor with small drivers will have a decent holding torque (at idle) but dont reach their potensial until they get full power. I have a Nema23 running my X-axis (rated at 269oz @2,8A) limited to 2,6A and have tried to hold the axis back by hand/force and I failed to make it stall. (Voltage 24V and running half step) I am using ACME rods. FWIW 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/27 "2017-08-12T22:37:36Z")
Everything has been ordered except a belt for the z axis. Need to find one if it exists. Excited for the improvement!!! ---
**Author:** ![CoryBorgel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@CoryBorgel](https://community.inventables.com/u/CoryBorgel)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/28 "2017-08-23T12:16:26Z")
SO I haven’t found a GT3 closed belt for the z-axis, so I am considering going to direct drive. Where do I find the coupler nut to connect the z-axis acme rod to the motor? I understand that I also need to make an adapter plate to mount the motor to, does anyone have a plate already that I could share the file with me? ---
**Author:** ![RickPeterson](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/rickpeterson/32/67810_2.png) [@RickPeterson](https://community.inventables.com/u/RickPeterson)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/29 "2017-08-23T12:57:45Z")
Your best bet for the Z is to grab a linear direct drive unit from cnc4newbies. They are super rigid and come with everything you need. If you message them and ask they will drill the mounting holes for the x carriage and the Dewalt spindle mount for you at no cost. Only thing you will have to do is decide on a way to mount your z homing switch. I drilled and tapped mine for M3 screws but some people use epoxy with decent results. [http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-AXIS-SLIDE-5-6-TRAVEL-FOR-CNC-ROUTER-3D-PRINTER-PLASMA/272419744906?\_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45560%26meid%3D7907a3cbba9945f2995fd373374822f3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D282233080740&\_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851](http://www.ebay.com/itm/Z-AXIS-SLIDE-5-6-TRAVEL-FOR-CNC-ROUTER-3D-PRINTER-PLASMA/272419744906?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45560%26meid%3D7907a3cbba9945f2995fd373374822f3%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dag%26sd%3D282233080740&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851) ---
**Author:** ![JustinBusby](https://yyz1.discourse-cdn.com/flex009/user_avatar/community.inventables.com/justinbusby/32/30906_2.png) [@JustinBusby](https://community.inventables.com/u/JustinBusby)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675/30 "2017-08-23T13:10:08Z")
> **[Gates 160-2MGT-09 PowerGrip GT3 Synchronous Belt 9400-2080](https://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Gates-160-2MGT-09-PowerGrip-GT3-Synchronous-Belt-9400-2080-4609p17203.htm)** > > 160-2MGT-09 Gates PowerGrip GT3 synchronous belt 160mm length 94002080 Replaces Part Number 2MR-160-09 That’s a 3rd gen GT belt with 2mm pitch and 80 teeth (like the Inventables one), 9mm width. > **[Gates 159-3MGT-09 PowerGrip GT3 Synchronous Belt 9400-4053](https://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Gates-159-3MGT-09-PowerGrip-GT3-Synchronous-Belt-9400-4053-4756p17306.htm)** > > 159-3MGT-09 Gates PowerGrip GT3 synchronous belt 159mm length 94004053. Replaces item 3MR-159-09 That’s a 3rd gen GT belt with 3mm ptich and about the same length, 9mm width. [Next page](https://community.inventables.com/t/upgrade-guidance/40675.md?page=2)